Friday, November 04, 2005

The Jedi are evil!

I bought the _Revenge of the Sith_ dvd last night and watched it and most of the special features. The typical gag reel (easter egg) was replaced with Yoda rapping. I want my gag reel!

But as I watched, I realized that Anakin turned to the dark side because the Jedi pushed him there. They didn't trust him. They shut him out. Palpatine, on the other hand, befriended Anakin. Palpatine showed respect to him.

And when it came time for the Jedi to arrest Palpatine for the crime of being a Sith Lord (Is that really on the books?), Mace Windu decided to assassinate Palpatine instead. Anakin argued (correctly) that Palpatine needed to stand trial, and stopped Windu from killing the Supreme Chancellor. True, Palpatine was an evil person, but the law is the only thing between us and anarchy. When American soldiers found Saddam Hussein in his hidey hole, did they shoot him dead? I think not.

The Jedi Council thought they were better than everybody else. They didn't trust the senate to fix problems diplomatically. The Jedi Council didn't trust democracy. The people of the galaxy elected Palpatine and this small group of Jedi elites were unhappy with that democratic action. Does this remind you of any elections in recent American history?

In the duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin, Obi-Wan declared that only Sith deal in absolutes. This is apparently his final rationale for deciding his friend is evil. The odd thing is, however, that all throughout the movie, it has been shown that the Jedi view the world in absolutes (Good vs. Evil), but the Sith in fact see and use every shade of gray. The Jedi are obviously so wrapped up in their dogma that they are unable to see its fallacies. Religious fundamentalism. It's a good thing they got wiped out before they resorted to terrorism.

23 comments:

Alyssa said...

No no no you have it all wrong. Anakin was basically brain washed by the Sith Lord... the guy was putting ideas in his head throughout the whole movie! Poor Anakin was defenseless... and then the love of his life dies, so, he has nothing else left to hold onto except anarchy. Oh, and his self-obsession too.
And whats the deal with the Yoda rapping bit? Good grief!

Sotosoroto said...

I'm not saying that Anakin didn't make some dumb decisions, just that he wasn't the only one who let the dark side take over his soul. Then again, we wouldn't have any movies at all if characters didn't make dumb decisions.

Stormtroopers standing around with crossed arms and bobbing heads while the little green dude demonstrates his dancing prowess and raps in a very unyodaish voice.

Alyssa said...

It takes the coolness out of Yoda. I dunno why they put that in there...

Sotosoroto said...

I seem to remember a similar hidden clip on the Attack of the Clones dvd where Yoda was blasting those tick-cow creatures with lightning from his fingers. They put it in there because . . . because the animators have too much time on their hands.

Alyssa said...

My guess is that the animators are really 13 year old boys.

Sotosoroto said...

Well, that may not be their chronological age, but ...

Sumocat said...

"The Jedi Council didn't trust democracy."
Didn't that democracy hand power over to a Sith Lord who built a weapon that could destroy planets? What part of that action makes the Senate trustworthy?

Sotosoroto said...

Welcome, Sumocat!

I'll agree that the senate wasn't trustworthy, but the jedi council stopped trusting the senate before they found out any of that stuff. Benevolent dictatorship, that's what we really need. As Anakin says, "If it works."

Anonymous said...

Dude are you a freakin idiot? Assikin was a dork who was obviously weak minded.Like you, maybe? I wonder if you really are this stupid or if you are putting on. Do you understand that the emporer is supposed to be evil? Or do you think that everything the emperor says is not a trap. YOU ARE STUPID.

Sotosoroto said...

Anon, just because the emperor is evil, it doesn't make the jedi any less evil themselves. Evils can oppose each other, don't you know?

Oh, by the way, have you been brainwashed by George Lucas or something? Don't blindly accept everything presented to you.

Anonymous said...

This thread is pretty old and I doubt anyone will ever read this but I thought I might chime in on this issue since Its raining, Im bored, and starwars is on Spike today.
Ok, First thing is first. Before any questions can be addressed concerning id this write is correct, we as the readers must understand that " Evil and Good are nothing more than perception, " That begin said, I believe that the writer has the correct opinion, and in fact that Starwars has multiple levels of: "Absolutism. Realism, Dogmatism, and Egocentrism "

R.O. said...

I will dare this without compromising the argument, Star Wars, and myself. First of all, Anakin was afraid. Remember he was a slave. The man who freed him from slavery and his only father figure, Qui-Gon Jinn, died. Then his mother died. Unlike the other Jedi, he wasn't young enough to banish fear and attachment from his mind but he was very strong in the Force because despite all of his problems, he was still innocent and good at heart.

Palpatine is also a jedi master supreme and Force user. He used Anakin for his own purposes against the jedi by playing upon his fears, Anakin's only weakness. Palpatine knew that Anakin was the only one strong enough in the Force to stop him. Remember, it is Vader that defeats Palpatine not any of the other jedi or even Luke who just reminds Vader of who he really is inside.

Good is what works and knowledge of the truth, the power to accept it and let things be what they are. Evil is not accepting this knowledge and using it in a meaningless manner to show off and get attention. The knowledge of good and evil is thus the ultimate good because no matter what you do, you know where you are going and where you are headed at all times. The jedi forgot their knowledge of the dark side so it defeated them and vice versa. Luke reminded his father of who he was and truly is while experiencing with his own eyes the ignorance of both sides.

Was Yoda and Ben any better than Palpatine? Not really. Both sides were ignorant. Yoda and Ben just let things be until it was too late to stop the darkside. Palpatine took advantage of the jedi's lack of motion and ignorantly destroyed almost all of the jedi. Anakin balanced the equation while allowing Luke the job to clean up the mess.

Anonymous said...

The Jedi take babies, keep them away from their families and teach them to shun their emotions in exchange for superpowers. The Jedi do not allow their members any personal freedom, or to hold their own beliefs. The Jedi value stagnation, they refuse to change. The Jedi value life, but what good is life without freedom?

The Sith value the individual, they value emotions, and they value evolution of thought. The Sith encourage competition, though they do so at the cost of devaluing life.

I'd say that both cults are evil.

Padme was the only one with her head on straight. Also she's hot. It's good to have hotness in a leader, like Nancy Pelosi with her huge rack.

Anonymous said...

The jedi are not perfect, when the jedi do take babys the question is this did the parents let them? if so why then is this evil? if they dont learn to use the force then they could hurt someone or themselfs lol. Next thing jedi do change luke allowed attachments in the new jedi order. You cant say the jedi dont value emotions, the jedi try to reduce suffering so they control their emotions by avoiding fear, jealousy, greed, hatred etc. They know these emotions cause suffering but they still value freindship, master yoda was very sad when Qui-Gon died (read it up) and in the film we can see Obi-Wan was sad also. The jedi have emotion but they control it by avoiding negitive emotion and they use more positive emotion, as they are aware of this its their choice to live like this they are free. So then you say the jedi do not have freedom? have you heard of grey jedi? they are jedi who leave the jedi order and follow their own philosohpy, now they are free to reject the jedi's teachings at an older age and leave the jedi order, but if a sith where to do this LOL he would get hurt. Look at Count Dooku he left the jedi order, no one stopped him. Only when he fell to the dark side did the jedi hunt for him, he was dangerous simple as that but alot of jedi have left the order freely without getting hurt. Jedi do understand love but not until after Palpatine's order 66, Qui-Gon used love to become a jedi ghost, Obi-Wan loved anakin like a brother (you could argue that leaving him to burn alive was evil this i agree with lol wtf was obi-wan doing) and luke allowed the new jedi order to love. The sith only love themselfs, i believe they are not free because they are slaves to the dark side, powerful dark lords like darth plagueis lived in fear before he died, what kind of life is that?. "Yoda and Ben any better than Palpatine?" hmmmm yes because they were not mass murders, they didnt cause any suffering for selfish personal gain but Palpatine did. Palpatine started the clone wars murderings millions of live's he lied to everyone and the jedi didnt trust him, the jedi didnt want to take over, they wanted to stop Palpatine from hurting more people, even if that ment killing him, they didnt want any power from what i saw, so yes they did trust democracy just not sideous as hes a mass murder. The jedi can be arrogant, strange and are not perfect but they are not evil, they try to reduce suffering and if you believe that reducing suffering is evil then what is good and evil?, and does it matter to debait this? if i stick a knife in you your not going to care, your going to want to get away from me lol. The sith are evil, they dont value life or freedom, they care only about themselfs and saddly this is always their downfall in the story.

Cypher9012 said...

This is a paragraph from 'The Jedi Path' book which is considered canon by Lucas and is therefore OFFICIAL:

Jedi Initiate (or Youngling or "Jedi Hopeful") – The youngest members of the Order, these force-sensitive child were given the rank of Initiate when they began their communal training in clans. Recruited from worlds throughout the galaxy where blood testing was required upon birth, Initiates were removed from their families and brought to a Jedi academy for formal training.

Take note; '...where blood testing was REQUIRED upon birth...' and especially 'Initiates were REMOVED from their familes...'

So here's the thing...the Jedi took babies...the term REMOVED implies by force or without consent, but it's never explained what happened to the people who objected to the Jedi stealing their children and brainwashing them into their cult?

Another point that should be made therefore is that Jedi are raised from being babies within the temple...Anakin had almost 10 years of being with his birth mother, experiencing life, doing things that no Jedi in the temple has done; pod-racing, starfighter combat, etc...therefore he would not and could not be as brainwashed as the others because he was capable of independant and abstract thought and opinion not common to other Jedi Iniates/Younglings because of their closeted upbringing; hence the ease in which Palpatine played upon his doubts, fears and attitude problem bringing about his fall to the Dark Side.

Also; I wonder where people get the idea that Palpatine is evil? He clearly states his aims and goals for the Galactic Republic are: to weed out corruption, provide a safe and secure place for people to live (paraphrasing), etc...nothing but good intentions and the only way he saw to make this happen was to form an Empire rather than allow the Republic to roll on, f*cking things up again and again...and as has been mentioned; Mace Windu decided himself on the spot that Palpatine must die, without trial or hearing or anything...even Saddam got a trial FFS before he was hanged...even Hitler would have gotten a trial...most of the WW2 Nazi War Criminals got a trial didn't they? Who are the Jedi to say who lives and dies and then claim they are simply peacekeepers aiding the republic?

And finally; who said that Palpatine was solely responsible for Anakin's fall to the Dark Side? I seem to remember in Episode 2 he massacred an entire village of Sand People on his own without Palpatine saying a word in his ear? I seem to remember him being a p*ssy little brat about a lot of things, embracing jealousy, hate, anger and the like before Palpatine got his claws into him...I believe that if there had been no Sith Lord in Anakin's life he still would have fallen to the Dark Side...becoming a Dark Jedi in time perhaps, because those ten years of being a slave made him something the Jedi could not work with, and telling him he was 'The Chosen One' his whole life was just stupid on their part ffs.

Anyway..that's my 2 cents worth, take it or leave it it's upto you...you can check for yourself anything I've said by watching the films or reading Wookiepedia and cross-referencing with books and stuff...it's all legit, just mostly paraphrased XD

sentinel said...

Let me add my perspective, at least some food for thought, and it also relates to Cypher's comment above mine. Are you into conspiracies? Ok, well we know a New World Order is being constructed, and we know the mass media has been used for programming the masses since its inception. This information is readily available online to anyone who wants to check it out. Anyway, here's what I think is going on.

The philosophy of the New World Order is at least partly Gnostic in character. The word Sith might come from "Seth", the lineage of traditional Christianity. The Sith are subliminally likened in the minds of viewers to clergy. Palpatine is evidently the Pope. The New World Order is setting up a massive dialectic between the Catholic Church (which is corrupt no doubt), and the Luciferian "liberators", the Illuminati (Jedi). When Palpatine takes over, the empire is formed and the galaxy plunges into a period of supposed terror (the "Dark Ages"). In Return of the Jedi we are being "freed" from the oppressive rule of the church and superstitious dogma (fake Christianity), celebrating a return to pagan ideals (look at pop culture and tell me we're NOT going into paganism...).

As for the Jedi stealing babies at birth (good mention Cypher), that makes perfect sense. We know governments are doing that right now with social services, and taking blood samples. The Illuminati are targeting the helpless youth to shape their minds for their secular socialist utopia, which is EXACTLY what the Jedi are doing. Let me reiterate, the Sith are not "good" in the strict sense of the word. Rather, they represent that which the architects of the New World Order want us to dissociate from (traditional religion), and to embrace instead their ideals and values.

From a true Christian perspective (if you believe in that), the Sith/Jedi are a false dichotomy, served up in classic dialectic fassion. The NWO has placed their change agents in education and media for over a hundred years, implementing the process to facilitate "change" (that we can ALL believe in -- sound familiar?), and arrive at a predetermined consensus.

Make no mistake, Lucas is probably the most prolific mind control agent of the century.

sentinel said...

Sorry for the double post, but I thought I'd supplement my previous post with a few more thoughts. When Palpatine gives order 66 (perhaps a reference to 666?) to exterminate all the Jedi, I think about Pope Clement V’s sudden crackdown of the Knight’s Templar, an esoteric military/banking order which some believe are the forerunners to the modern Freemasons (the highest degrees of Freemasonry are called the Order of the Knight’s Templar). The Templars were founded by the Papacy but eventually came under the influence of Cabalism and were declared heretics. The Jedi Knights (Templars) were crushed by the Papacy (in conspiracy with Philip IV of France), but the Templars were not completely destroyed and went underground, spawning a network of secret societies like the Rosicrucians and others (the “rebels” in Star Wars). These secret societies, which were Gnostic in character, were responsible for the “Renaissance”, which was in actuality an occult revival of pagan ideas reintroduced in Europe. The attack upon the Jedi temple could be seen as the Romans’ destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD. Anyway, the Pope (Palpatine) assumes essentially total control over medieval European society, with various kings (Sith Lords) ruling over their respective principalities. During this time of terror, heretics (rebels) are hunted down by the Empire relentlessly, burned at the stake and so on.
The Jedi survive in secret (as in secret societies). Eventually they manage to overthrow the Empire and establish their rule in harmony with the balance of the force (sounds like the inscription on the Georgia Guidestones calling for a stable population in perpetual balance with nature, among other things). The harlot church is destroyed (Palpatine is killed), and the Luciferians emerge from the shadows in broad daylight, like the Jedi taking over the galaxy at the end of Return of the Jedi. This idea of the hidden masters emerging into public consciousness is talked about in occultist Alice Bailey’s 1957 book “The Externalization of the Hierarchy”, meaning the public manifestation of the already-existing, but long unknown to the masses, shadow masters, the “hidden hand” of history. Notice how the Jedi padawans have no family and are raised collectively by the Jedi. This sounds very much like the New World Order, where the family will be no more, everyone will be raised (bred, really) by the state, and the concept of the individual is dissolved. The Jedi have no sense of self, as they are supposed to be completely selfless. This, of course, is presented as a noble idea, just as various communist/fascist theories were in real life (and still are). The Sith are too obviously evil, so instead Satan transforms himself as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), and comes to mankind with ideas that sound good, but whose ends lead to death (Proverbs 14:12). The Jedi come in the name of peace. “For when they say, ‘Peace and safety!’ then sudden destruction comes upon them, just as labor pains upon the woman that is pregnant, and they shall by no means escape.” (1 Thessalonians 5:3).

sentinel said...

I’m back for one last post. I don’t want to post more than I have to but I just couldn’t resist so I want to throw this out there as well. Near the end of Episode III – Revenge of the Sith, Yoda tells Obi-Wan that Qui-gon has emerged from the netherworld, and he (Yoda) will teach Obi-Wan how to communicate with him. For most people this would go by completely unnoticed, but for those in the know, they would immediately recognize the New Age practice of communicating with “ascended masters” and dead people (which Christians recognize as demons). Theosophists Helena Blavatsky and Alice Bailey, the intellectual and spiritual mothers of the New Age movement in the western world, both speak of contacting the spirits of those who are deceased, for special revealed knowledge. Qui-gon has passed into the netherworld and become an “ascended master”. Obi-Wan has risen from Jedi Knight (Templar) to Jedi Master (adept in grace), and is ready for esoteric wisdom from spirits of the deceased. The Skywalker family, which has been “blessed with an unusually high amount of midichlorians” are possibly the Merovingian bloodline from which the Antichrist (Luke?) emerges to bring balance to the force (i.e. bring human civilization to the state before the Biblical flood), to recreate Atlantis, in what Rosicrucian Francis Bacon has termed the “New Atlantis”, the “Novus Ordo Seclorum” on the dollar bill, or simply, the New World Order as it’s popularly known.

Alice Bailey’s publishing organization Lucis Trust, initially called Lucifer Trust (hint, hint), is the spiritual disseminator of New Age doctrine emanating from the United Nations. The Jedi Council sounds like the UN Security Council, but that might be grasping for straws, the Security Council are not themselves the high cabal. The inscription on the Isaiah Wall at the United Nations headquarters is a quote from the Book of Isaiah, which reads, “They shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war anymore” (Isaiah 2:4). This sounds like a “tyranny of peace”, exactly the kind that the Jedi practice. All feelings are bad, family is bad, and as Yoda tells Anakin, “Rejoice for those around you who transform into The Force (that is, who escape the evil matter into the pure realm of spirit; Gnosticism anyone?). Mourn them do not. Miss them do not.” The "light side" does not mean the "good side", but rather the way to Illumination, through the power of the Light Bearer (Lucifer), by means of deception. There can be no doubt, the Jedi Masters are the architects of the New Atlantis, who will usher in a global kingdom of peace where all submit to their rule and exist only as a collective in balance with “the force”.

Anonymous said...

clearly jedi are evil! why else would Obi Wan walk away from anikan at the end of revenge of the sith? its classic bad guy 101 to leave the good guy to near certain death without actually finishing the job... thus we have irrefutable proof that anikan is the good guy all along and Obi Wan and the Jedi are the baddies

Anonymous said...

Totally agree. Watch the Clone Wars series... Perhaps the Jedi Council has been infiltrated by the Sith but pretty much every big decision is either ruthless, selfish or both. The clones are treated for the most part as expendable cannon fodder. The droid army (seemingly sentient but with low IQ naive minds) are slaughtered ruthlessly by both sides. Its despicable stuff. Anikan in contrast to the rest of the evil Jedi only acts from emotion and on the spur of the moment. He often makes bad 'evil' decisions but generally he doesn't premeditate them unlike Mace Windo and the rest of these sleazy mind controlling gangsters. Don't get me wrong I do love Starwars but it does seem that by the time period of the movies the Jedi had lost their way...

Nemeses said...

The Jedi were clearly evil- if not in a vaudeville way, perhaps even worse for it for considering themselves selfless heroes. They steal children and brainwash them to obey- whether their way is correct or not, there is no choice on the matter. They act outside and above the law- i.e. the attempted murder of Lord Sidious for no apparent reason other than that he was a Sith Lord, which is referenced in the ROTS novel as not being a crime recognized by the Republic.

The Sith certainly aren't good in the traditional sense either, mind, but they acknowledge that what they do is at times pretty heinous- Tyranus and Vader provide some of the best examples of this. They are a force of change while the Jedi are a force of stagnation, and growth occurs at the hand of the Sith, not the Jedi.

Moreover, it's stated in a few books at the least that Sith don't exclusively rely on the Dark Side, though it's their usual preference. They can just as easily use the Light Side, making them more whole, in my view, than the Jedi.

The Jedi also mostly reside in Temples, though many venture at least occasionally into the outside world. However, it's implied that this still separates them from the outer, connected world. They feel the Living Force at the expense of knowing life. The Jedi Path (the book) and certain lines and actions (the attempted murder of Sidious again stands out) brings home that relative to the trillions of beings in the galaxy, the Jedi have a simple, almost disjointed view of how the world actually works, the Force in practice rather than theory. They needed to be exterminated down to the last one, allowing a new Jedi Order to blossom, one that was far healthier, less corrupt, less stagnant, and less out of touch with the world around them.

your future rebbetzin said...

The Jedi abduct children into a religious order and brainwash them. Say what you want about Palpatine once he's Emperor, at least he lets his apprentices choose.
The Jedi refuse to actually do anything GOOD with the Republic's power (like stopping slavery on a small, poor planet and improving its economy), and they don't actually support democracy.
I also can't think of a single evil thing the Sith did during the prequel trilogy. They were a guerilla army trying to overthrow the corrupt government. The children they killed WERE trying to kill them.

darth mortis said...

The jedi ARE evil. They always talk about " balance " when what really ment was their domination of the force and the eradication of other force users. How can there be " balance " between light and dark when they want to exterminate the dark side ? The Jedi are arrogant , self absorbed elitests that think they are above the Democracy of the Republic. They attack anyone that see things differently , then accuse the Sith of their crimes. The Jedi lie , cheat , and steel to get what they want , the Sith are at least honest about what they want. The Sith have lived for centuries without the jedi even knowing that they were alive , as soon as the jedi found out about them , the jedi had only one thought " kill them ". THE JEDI ARE EVIL.